DATE WITH SUCCESS

Shankar Uprety

Founder & CEO, Hamro Patro

What initially started as a hobby project has today become one of the most downloaded Nepali apps in the country. Shankar Uprety, Founder and CEO of Hamro Patro, shares that the idea of developing Hamro Patro took root while pursuing his Master’s degree in the United States.

Uprety has held a keen fascination for computers and technology since his school days in Birgunj. This led him to pursue a degree in Computer Engineering from the Institute of Engineering, Pulchowk Campus, and postgraduate studies in Computer Science from Boston University. While in the United States, he found that it was difficult to get information on important dates in the Nepali calendar. “Social media was non-existent then. While it was not difficult to get information on bigger festivals like Dashain and Tihar, it was near possible to find anything on the internet for other occasions like Nepali Mother’s Day and Father’s Day,” he recalls. 
“I found this to be a common problem for other Nepalis too and so I worked on Hamro Patro and launched it in 2009,” shares Uprety. 

Here, he is quick to add that the app was launched as a hobby project and at that time he had no inkling that it would become the most famous Nepali app, and that he would later be leading a business ecosystem around it someday. 

In this edition of Business 360, we spoke to Uprety to learn about his journey, about Hamro Patro, and about the information technology ecosystem. Excerpts from the interview.

What made Hamro Patro so popular?

There are two factors I think which have led to the soaring popularity of Hamro Patro. The first I would say is the timing of the launch because back then there was no other Nepali app; we had the first-mover advantage. The other aspect is the app is a basic utility because having information on important dates is something that every Nepali requires. The consistency with which we have upgraded and added features has also helped us stay ahead of the race. Oftentimes, people develop apps and they feel the work has been completed but an app is always an ongoing process. You always need to be updating features and we have been continuously enhancing our app for the last 15 years. Today, Hamro Patro is not just about dates; we have news and radio and a whole gamut of other features. When an app consists of features that people use on a daily basis then it will gain traction.

Any app that has features that people use on a daily basis tends to become more popular. For example, we also have a horoscope feature and trust me literally every person, no matter what their personal or professional status, tends to look at their horoscope every day.

When I first created the app, I had no intention of making a career or business out of it. It was, plain and simple, a hobby. I used to work full time in an organisation and I was developing the app on weekends only. I released the app in 2009 but it really took off in 2015. It became so popular that I started thinking if it could be so famous when I was working on it as a hobby then why not get involved in it full-time. I had a very stable job with a good pay package in a Fortune 500 company at the time but I decided to take the plunge and do my own thing.

Could you elaborate on that initial entrepreneurial journey?

Though I had the idea, I didn’t have much knowledge of how to go about developing an app. There were not many people then who were in this segment so getting information on creating an app was an uphill task. I had to study a lot and it took considerable time to understand the process. After having developed the app, the next challenge was to increase the number of users. I constantly took feedback and suggestions from users on what needed to be improved and I still do that to this day. It is of paramount importance for any business, whether dealing with a product or service, to constantly seek feedback from end-users otherwise your idea could become redundant and everything becomes futile if the customers do not appreciate your offering. I have always compared an app to a toothbrush, in the sense that people use their toothbrushes twice a day, customers must use the app at least twice a day, then only do you stand a chance of surviving let alone making it big. Nothing great happened in the three years after launching Hamro Patro in 2009 and only a handful had downloaded it.

The reason I keep harping on right timing is that in 2013 a lot of Android phones started coming into the Nepali market and this gave rise to the culture of smartphones because they were affordable. The benefit for us was that we were already an existing app and when people started buying smartphones and were looking to download apps, our app was already there. We have several apps under the Hamro Patro brand. The Hamro Patro app itself has over 20 million downloads on Android phones. We also have a Nepali keyboard app which has seen more than 15 million downloads. We have other apps too, so if you look at the total there have been nearly 50 million downloads but we have shared users which means the same person could be using many of our apps. When it comes to active users, then we have 15 million users.

Yes, I had a stable job with good pay and was working on Hamro Patro only on weekends. However, even then, when I made a small change in the app the number of users would surge and that gave a different sense of satisfaction. The feeling that I could have an impact on so many lives through an app was surreal.

I remember when Android operating system was initially launched, there was no Nepali keyboard. We had to literally type in Unicode and then copy-paste that on the mobile if we wanted to send Nepali text. At that time Google had not focused at all on Nepali text. We took a few days to develop the Nepali keyboard and within 18 months we had 10 lakh downloads. That success really hit me and the other thing is that the app had also started generating revenue. The revenue being generated through the app was somewhat similar to my pay. There was a risk leaving behind a stable job and getting into unchartered territory but I decided to take the plunge. It was a calculated risk though. Moreover, by sticking to my job I would be able to earn a handsome salary but I would not be able to make an impact the way I could with my app. At times, you need to listen to your inner voice if you want to achieve great things in life and here, I am now.

Thousands of apps have been introduced since but only a few have actually survived and made it big. What do you attribute this to?

The first and foremost aspect is one has to constantly work on making the app better over time. Just developing and releasing an app will not make you successful. It never works that way. One important factor is that along with the app, one must also develop a business model. When we first launched Hamro Patro, advertisements were our revenue source but in the first few years we had no business. It was in 2012, we received an advertisement and earned our first dollar and this excited me. For any app to sustain it must be able to generate revenue. If not, then over a period of time the person could lose interest in their app and it dies out.

The good thing for us is we have been making profits from the initial stage itself. That provided us the energy to better our app and that is why we started investing money in research and development to make it better. If you look at the popular apps, you will notice they are all revenue-generating. Yes, the mode of revenue could differ with some focusing on advertisements and others on transactions. So, if you do not have a business model then the app is bound to fail. Generating revenue through advertisements is difficult because you need to go to the masses. You cannot generate revenue through advertisements if only 10,000 people use your app on a daily basis. Therefore, I think sustainability is very important for not only an app but any business to be successful for that matter.

To be honest, initially, I did not have any business model when I started in 2009 as it was just a hobby app. In 2012, when I integrated our first advertisement, we received our first dollar and in one day we earned 10 dollars. The benefit for us is since we have a large user base, even if we get just 10 or 15 cents from one advertisement, we can develop a business model based on advertisement revenue. Till around 2019, 100% of our revenue was through advertisements. However, we realised the need to diversify if we wanted to sustain in the long term and since we had so many users, we decided to monetise that.

Though we do have a global presence now, 70% of our users are in Nepal. We started brainstorming on the features we could add for our Nepali diaspora living in various other countries. We realised most of them are migrant workers and one thing they will definitely do is send money home. Remittance is a recurring business because workers send money home every month, so in 2020, we started remittance service, which is another way we make money.

We are trying to gradually become a super app which will have all the necessary features that a person needs. We have partnered with remittance companies abroad and we take money through the app and we have a remit company in Nepal called Hamro Patro Remit and we pay the beneficiaries here through that. All our transactions are digital. The reason why we made it digital is even in Nepal people have gradually stopped carrying cash and remittance is becoming totally digital these days. The main advantage of digital service is that we require very less manpower and operational efficiency becomes very high. The moment operational efficiency becomes high, we can provide a good rate.

We also have a service whereby one can consult an astrologer and that is another way we make money. We have also started a telemedicine service in Nepal. So, any patient from any corner of the world can call a doctor here and take advice. At present, we have 300 doctors on our platform.

You recently launched Hamro Pay, a digital wallet. Could you tell us more about that, and your thoughts on the digital economy?

It has been a little over six months since we launched Hamro Pay. We have so many services so we thought it would be a good idea to start a digital wallet to make payments for these services more convenient. The response has been terrific and we already have 2 lakh users. On the first day itself, we had 10,000 users. The growth has been impressive and now we are working on how we can further activate that.

There are many such wallets in the market but we want to play a long game. There is a misconception that you have to burn money when launching a digital wallet but we have been profitable and the reason I think is because we already have users. We did not have to spend anything to acquire users, we only had to convert them. However, it will take time to gain the trust of more people for the wallet to be more widely accepted. But we are happy with the initial growth.

The world is gradually transforming into digital be it education or medicine or economy or even just plain entertainment. Nepal too has taken that digital path and the digital economy is gradually getting better. Previously, even four to five years back, the main problem in our country was that we didn’t have much of E-commerce. There were not many online payment services too. Thankfully, now the digital payment system in Nepal has become very good and also transparent. If you look at the economy at present, there has been a proliferation of online transactions be it for delivering products and services or making payments. And this is only going to get bigger. Many people have stopped carrying cash because we can make payments through cards or QR. One reason why we launched Hamro Pay is that we want to be a superapp, whereby once you download our app you will not need other apps. Previously, our focus was on information consumption but in the last three years, we have been trying to diversify our offerings. The digital economy has tremendous potential in Nepal.

However, having said that there are a couple of things that the government could do to facilitate and boost this growth. The government recently introduced the e-commerce bill which has so many provisions which I feel could demotivate those involved in the sector. For instance, even for a small mistake, and mistakes can happen during any business transaction, one could be jailed for three years and/or pay a fine. I strongly feel the way that laws are drafted needs to change. The government should always consult concerned stakeholders when drafting a law related to any sector. I understand there are concerns related to consumer protection, however, the government should also think of ways in which it could promote businesses. The new e-commerce bill is a bit problematic. Instead of making processes lean and fast, I feel it makes the processes more cumbersome. The online business in Nepal is very low and the government should be promoting it but instead, I feel it is only thinking about regulating and controlling it. The concerned authorities should be thinking of how to make it easier but have only thought of ways to control it. This approach needs to change and change fast.

Nepal Rastra Bank has done quite an impressive job in promoting the fintech industry and our development is in sync with that in India. The ecosystem is fantastic right now and all the banks are linked at present. The only problem is it is more Kathmandu- and urban-centric. When we travel outside the valley, we still have to use cash. We need to make people living in suburban and rural areas too aware of digital transactions. The government policies are pretty good but it will take time to change the habits of people who are used to using cash.

How do you view the development of the IT sector in Nepal?

The IT sector has seen tremendous growth over the last couple of years. However, one core issue at the moment is the dearth of manpower. We at Hamro Patro have been facing this problem; when we take out a vacancy notice for ten people, we rarely get the required number. There are many IT colleges in the country but I somehow feel we are lacking in quality education. When I mention quality, what I mean is that the graduates coming out of college are not industry-ready.

Another aspect is we are gradually seeing many multinational companies in Nepal which is good because they generate more employment opportunities but on the flip side, it is a bit difficult for domestic companies to retain talent as they tend to pay higher salaries. So, what is basically happening is that we are competing in the domestic market but with multinational players. This calls for more skilled human resources in the market to balance out things. 

My request to the government would be to just create an enabling environment. Previously, when we used to export software, we had to pay 1% tax but this has been increased to 5% to 10% through the budget for the current fiscal year. The government should be careful about introducing such provisions. Why not let the sector grow a bit more first and then apply such taxes? What happens is even before the sector can actually flourish, such regulations nip it at the bud. To further promote the IT industry, the government should convert all its services into digital mode. There are a few government services that are digital but are available from 10 only in the morning till 5 in the evening. That does not make sense in the IT field. Another problem that also has quite an impact is the fact that at times when we visit certain government offices, their server is down. Online services have to be reliable for people to trust such new innovations and the government could take the lead on this.

Moreover, there has to be a close collaboration between the industry and education sector. There is always a huge gap in what we study in college and what the industry is seeking and this has been happening since my college days. Gradually, we have seen collaborations happening but more needs to be done on that front. There also needs to be more collaboration within the industrial ecosystem.

And lastly but very vital, we need more investment to make the sector more vibrant. Usually, what happens in Nepal is that I could have a brilliant idea but it is difficult to raise funds. For any startup to start generating profits it might take five years or at times even ten years. However, people here have the concept that why invest and wait for so long and that too you are not sure whether there will be any return when you can put that amount in a bank as fixed deposit and earn interest. We need more sources of investment.

What advice would you give young entrepreneurs and startups from your own experience?

After graduating, I started a small software business in 2004 with some of my friends which was a failure. We had not even formally established the company and we had to close it down. Now I look back and realise it was not a very good idea to have opened a company right after getting out of college. I should have worked in an established company for a few years so that I could have gained hands-on experience and I would also know what the market was seeking. What I would say is instead of opening a business right after college it is always better to work in an established company for a couple of years to gain experience.

When I joined my first job, I realised there were so many intricacies involved in running a business. In fact, it would be better if you could gather work experience while still in college. Or what one could also do is open a business while still doing a job. This is what I did later on. I started Hamro Patro as a hobby project while still being employed. However, one must be careful as to when to leave the job and start your own business. But if you are looking to be called a youth entrepreneur and start just for the sake of it then you are bound to fail. I am talking about this through my experience.

When we open a startup, we must first understand that we are getting into unknown territory and we don’t know what the future holds for us. We must first conduct thorough research to ascertain whether the product or service that we are planning to launch has a market. You have to know how and whether the market is going to accept that product or service. We too had to close down some products as they did not perform well. But again, when it comes to a startup, we can never be 100% sure on whether it is going to succeed. A startup by nature is experimental. Even in the United States, nearly 90% of startups fail.

The other aspect is if our offering does not do good then we have to pre-board, which means you had an idea which was not successful so you go for another idea. The timing of the pre-boarding must be perfect though. The unofficial rule of the market is that it is not necessary that people require all the products or services that are launched in the market.

What young IT entrepreneurs need to be aware is that most people first try to create a solution and then go looking for the problem, which basically means you are looking for a market after you have launched a product or service. People often create products first and assume a certain segment is their customer base. The first thing is you need to do market research to find out whether the problem that you are thinking about does really exist. The basic work of software is to solve a problem and if a software solves that problem in a better way, then, people will use that product. So, what young IT entrepreneurs should be saying is there is this problem in the market and if I can solve it then what value will that generate for the organisation. However, it is not easy to find out what the actual problem is. It takes a lot of hard work. If it was easy then we would not be having so many failures. What successful startups do is they provide a better solution to an existing problem at the right time. Any product that you launch should always increase efficiency; it should help people save time. For example, before the ride-sharing concept took root it was very difficult for so many people to commute. But now you can call a taxi from your app and even order food. What that does is it improves efficiency.

What is the future of telemedicine in Nepal with your experience in the area?

Telemedicine boomed globally during Covid and now too there are some problems that can be solved through telemedicine. The sector is growing gradually and this generation might use the service sporadically but the next generation I believe will adapt to it because youngsters today are growing up with access to mobile phones and practically every youngster has a smartphone. The difficulty with our generation is that we are used to visiting doctors and to bring about behavioural change is probably the most challenging task. People are so used to visiting doctors physically that we are actually competing against behavioural change. However, ultimately as the new generation starts growing up, telemedicine will be more prevalent and its future is huge. It saves so much time and the cost of commuting to a doctor. Telemedicine will increase efficiency and that’s what all our products are geared towards. Currently, we have a large team working on telemedicine. We are also providing this service to Nepalis living abroad and we get calls from various countries. It is helpful for migrant workers, for instance, if a migrant worker is in Malaysia then it is difficult for them to talk to a doctor there in their local language. So, they can directly connect with doctors in Nepal. The future is bright but we are still in the initial phase.

As a business leader, what are some lessons you have imbibed?

Over the years what I have learnt is one must be persistent in what you are doing. There is no substitute for consistency. And no matter what you are venturing into, you must have a solid business plan. One crucial question that you need to ask yourself is from where are you going to generate revenue. How is the business going to be sustainable? Many startups raise funds but you must have a plan whereby the business becomes profitable and sustainable before the funds burn out.

For instance, if I had not made money in the initial stage when I launched Hamro Patro, I probably wouldn’t be where I am today. When there is no return, you will lose interest and close down the business. Every business or startup has to make money; that is the thought one must have when opening any venture.

What I have also become aware of is the importance of teamwork. If you don’t have a good team, then you are going to face problems. You must have the right people in the right places.

Lastly, the trust that you develop within the team is crucial. There are times when a team member might make a mistake but if we reprimand them, it will definitely demotivate them and they will stop telling you the truth from then onwards. So that trust must be there wherein any team member can walk up to you and tell you that they have made a mistake. When we are working professionally there definitely will be respect among the team members but more than that there should be trust between everybody. Even I have made mistakes at times and when there is somebody who can tell you about your mistake then not only does it give you the opportunity to better yourself but as a whole it is good for the company too. I find that is lacking among many people. A company’s culture is vital for it to be successful.

What are the major differences you have witnessed in the work culture in Nepal and Silicon Valley?

It is a personal observation and I don’t mean any wrong to anyone but I feel people take their work very seriously in developed nations and there is a lot of accountability. We still have some way to go with regard to that in Nepal. When it comes to talent, it is similar. Also, the companies in Silicon Valley focus a lot on sales and marketing. Just developing a product does not suffice, there is a whole lifecycle to it and we need to understand that. Another major difference is the open culture they have where there is a lot of sharing of ideas. We are a bit apprehensive about sharing ideas in Nepal as we feel the idea could be copied by someone else. However, in Silicon Valley people share ideas and others give feedback and suggestions which can be incorporated to make it better. What is also important is that having an idea is not enough, it is about executing it. Anybody could have an idea but what holds them back is the execution aspect. So, I think we have prioritised ideas a bit too much whereas execution is more important than just creating an idea. I personally think ideas should be shared because you can improve on them.